PTW

In light of the rule "anyone can attend PTWCC events and rides without predjudice". I was wondering, do I need to be a member of PTWCC, and if I don't, am I still eligable to purchase and wear the new kit. My thinking is, that myself and 70+ others could save themselves the membership fee and put the saving towards the price of a new kit. Hope someone can shed some light on this.

I wonder what's really behind this..............ho hum doesn't matter

There is no dillemma........ as a fully paid up member of Port talbot wheelers CC you are entitled to a number of member privilages.

1. Make as many comments on this forum as you like
2. Ride in club Colours
3. have the secretary receive and distribute your BC Licence
4. have your say and be listened to in meetings
5. Be part of this group of like mided cycling friends and be part of all the humorous banter that goes with it
6. Race in BC Events
7. Take part in Club Time trials and other occasions put on for your enjoyment

The down side is that when "the Club" has a vote in the AGM and that vote is carried then as a member of that club you have to abide by that decision even if you do not like the outcome.

But hey you the up side is that can come to the next AGM and put in a motion to change the rule if you like. I guess you could come down the club night on a friday to gain support for you view. With sufficient support from the members I'm sure no committee could ignore it and given a mandate I would be only too willing to convene a special AGM to be called in an attempt to change the rule. A democracy is a wonderful thing isn't it.

On the other hand provided youv'e paid up your membership which falls due January 1st then you continue to let people know how you feel on this forum

Now as a non member Or someone who has not paid club subscrptions you will not
1. Receive the benefits of the sponsors contribution towards the club Kit as you will not be able to purchase any kit (See rule 10)
2. Recieve any licence issued to me
3. continue to have access to this forum
4. Have any say whatsoever in the running of this club
5. Wear any existing Club Kit {Although rule 10 may be difficult to enforce with a non member}
6. Race in BC events
7. Race in club organised events

You will however be able to ride along the A48 (or any other public road) on a saturday at around 10:00am.

Now whether as a defaulter you would receive the friendly banter you enjoy currently I'm not sure, and if no one spoke to you for the trip or in the cafe then I'm sure you would either pay your members fee or find someone else to ride on a saturday. But Would I tell you you cannot ride along the A48.......... I think not.

The question I would ask is why would anyone want to ride with club colours, take part in the banter, come out on a saturday/sunday/thursday but not want to support the club by paying his/her membership to be part of the very thing that allows all that enjoyment? Youngsters rightly or wrongly changing clubs in an atttempt to further themselves. Elite riders moving for sponsorship deals is one thing, rank and file club members so whats your angle? Am I misunderstanding something here?


Anyway Light hopefully switched on.

I'm trying NOT to get dragged into this discussion but I have to ask ...

Is it the club secretary's position to convene an AGM or the chairman's ?

It was agreed by the Website committee, about three years ago that the forum would be open to members and recognised guests. Therefore you DO NOT have to be a member of PTW to post on the website.

As I recall, The AGM voted that Port talbot wheelers would welcome ALL and any cyclist to ride with the club on ANY ride ( except club events because of the CTT levy ) as friends without prejudice.

The way i look at it is buy paying a 12months membership you are

"SUPPORTING THE CLUB THAT SUPPORTS YOU"

Thank you Anthony!So without joining the PTWCC, anyone can ride with the club and post on this forum as a guest as long as the postings are not damaging to the club or it's members.Is it right that any cyclist could declare themselves unattached and their licence would be delivered straight to them? The other question still remains, can a non club fee paying cyclist still purchase and wear PTWCC kit as a freind to the club?

You've got it titus. Bit of a paradox isn't it?

Bar-steward would have been my choice Davey,but yes you're right enough!

Not sure where this is going, bit I thought that Les made it quite clear

Now as a non member Or someone who has not paid club subscrptions you will not
1. Receive the benefits of the sponsors contribution towards the club Kit as you will not be able to purchase any kit (See rule 10)

Bringing the club rules into the eqaution opens up a whole new can o' worms!

titus surdouksas wrote

Thank you Anthony!So without joining the PTWCC, anyone can ride with the club and post on this forum as a guest as long as the postings are not damaging to the club or it's members.Is it right that any cyclist could declare themselves unattached and their licence would be delivered straight to them? The other question still remains, can a non club fee paying cyclist still purchase and wear PTWCC kit as a freind to the club?

You quote above:

"post on this forum as a guest as long as the postings are not damaging to the club or it's members"

Now surley starting a thread which questions wether or not its WORTH joining the PTWCC,for the benefits, is a highly DAMAGING thread if read by non-members thinking of joining ???!?!, especialy trying to point out the ways to "duck and dive" and "read in between the lines" of the club rules so you can ride as a non-member but have the benefits of a paying member, and form what i remember isnt membership only £20???

I apologise if i got this all wrong, but reading this is the impression i get and surely others will look at it the same way...

Anthony Vallario wrote

I'm trying NOT to get dragged into this discussion but I have to ask ...

Is it the club secretary's position to convene an AGM or the chairman's ?

It was agreed by the Website committee, about three years ago that the forum would be open to members and recognised guests. Therefore you DO NOT have to be a member of PTW to post on the website.

As I recall, The AGM voted that Port talbot wheelers would welcome ALL and any cyclist to ride with the club on ANY ride ( except club events because of the CTT levy ) as friends without prejudice.

I don't want to get bogged down in pedantics but Seeing as you asked Anthony I Guess I need to repond.

POINT 1
As I stated it would be the secretarys duty to convene the meeting "The important bit in my statement was "Given a Mandate" That mandate might be an instruction from the chairman or more likely an action from a committee meeting, none the less the letters would be written and posted by the secretary

POINT 2
Quite correct you do not have to be a member to post on this website but non members remain part of this forum as a recognised guest. The important part of that statement is the term guest, a privilage easily be removed if the committee see fit.

POINT 3
Yes totally agree that your statement is an accurate record of what was voted on.

Finally I totally agree with Charles' last post, Lets get some positive vibes for the new year. Despite what people may think reading this thread, This is a great Club and made up of great people. We run some great events and are a credit to the welsh Cycling scene. Its right that people have different ideas and values, and its great that we have a medium on which it can be aired. So come along to Club nights on every Friday at Taibach Community Centre, pay your subs, get the new kit and be part of a great community. Here's to a puncture free 2009.

Well said both Les and Charles, having read some of the comments on this site lately,if i was a newcomer looking at this club i would give it a wide berth, as all that seems to come out is negative vibes,if those people put as mucb effort in to racing /organising as they put into these negative comments,this club would be the best in the country.Could say a lot more but my "brain" is starting to disengage now .

I don't think the post is damaging in any way, after all, in the light of the question "do I need to be a member" under the rule, "ride with PTWCC as a freind without predjudice",( a rule past in the last AGM),I still wanted to buy and wear the new PTWCC kit and represent the club.I was just wondering if I could save myself £20 in the process.As for racing and organising,I'll refer you to rule 1, once again,PTWCC was set up to represent cycling in all its forms(I don't have the exact wording, but I'm pretty sure thats the gist) and as for organising, I think I've done my fair share of marshalling in the past and I'll be happy to do it in the future as well as being one of few to regularly attend the "Sunday PTWCC on-tracx ride", that's a ride set up to attract new (young or old cyclists) to the club. So does this new rule cancel out rule 10 and would I qualify to purchase the kit and be a non-fee paying club representative and what answer do I give on a Sunday, when a fellow cyclist asks me,"do I have to join PTWCC ?

titus surdouksas wrote

In light of the rule "anyone can attend PTWCC events and rides without predjudice". I was wondering, do I need to be a member of PTWCC, and if I don't, am I still eligable to purchase and wear the new kit. My thinking is, that myself and 70+ others could save themselves the membership fee and put the saving towards the price of a new kit. Hope someone can shed some light on this.

Mate, if 70 + current members decided not to be fully payed members next year then unfortunalty there wouldn't be enough revenue from club membership to be a club in 2009, so the money you'd save u wouldn't be able to buy shinny new kit. At the end of the day with out paying member sthere wouldn't be a club, and as you mentioned you enjoy attending the on-trax rides on a sunday, now surely when trying to attract NEW members to the club its not the best impresion to give them that you personaly dont think its WORTH paying to be a memberof PTWCC?!? and as i said before in this subject:

"support the club that supports you".

I know its the credit crunch and all but £20?

And am i right in thinking that your doing the end to end this year, surely that would warrant being a fully paid member, for all the organising the club is doing to put it together etc.....

Also, aswell now that a certain forum member has now vacated this forum (no names mentioned) i thought it would be the end of unconstructive/damaging subjects, and only positive vibes throught here !!!!!! come on butt !!!

Is this issue damaging ? Or is it not a strength of the club that these sort of discussions can take place on an open - uncensored forum ?

Club Kit ? Supporters of Astana or Bianchi or CSC or Columbia ... etc, can buy team clothing, and indeed several of our own members even ride with kit from other local clubs.
So maybe we should make our new kit available to non members - but without the sponsors funded discounts ( must remember to bring this up at next committee meeting )

charliefummi wrote

titus surdouksas wrote

In light of the rule "anyone can attend PTWCC events and rides without predjudice". I was wondering, do I need to be a member of PTWCC, and if I don't, am I still eligable to purchase and wear the new kit. My thinking is, that myself and 70+ others could save themselves the membership fee and put the saving towards the price of a new kit. Hope someone can shed some light on this.

Mate, if 70 + current members decided not to be fully payed members next year then unfortunalty there wouldn't be enough revenue from club membership to be a club in 2009, so the money you'd save u wouldn't be able to buy shinny new kit. At the end of the day with out paying member sthere wouldn't be a club, and as you mentioned you enjoy attending the on-trax rides on a sunday, now surely when trying to attract NEW members to the club its not the best impresion to give them that you personaly dont think its WORTH paying to be a memberof PTWCC?!? and as i said before in this subject:

"support the club that supports you".

I know its the credit crunch and all but £20?

And am i right in thinking that your doing the end to end this year, surely that would warrant being a fully paid member, for all the organising the club is doing to put it together etc.....

Also, aswell now that a certain forum member has now vacated this forum (no names mentioned) i thought it would be the end of unconstructive/damaging subjects, and only positive vibes throught here !!!!!! come on butt !!!

Does this mean that I can not wear my old club kit as I'm no longer a paid up member of the club? If that is the case does any one want to buy it as I have over £250 worth of kit here!!!
I also have other kit, CSC, Gerolsteiner,etc. Do I have to stop wearing these kits as well as I'm not a member of these clubs!!!
It will be a shame If I cant wear it as its good quality kit and I also advertise your club when I'm out in it.

Think the issue im trying to bring up here, is not the fact bout anybody wearing anyones kit, its the fact that we all try are upmost to promote the club in any which way or form, just i find it a little crazy that that on a "CLUB" forum that someone should be discussing why they "SHOULDNT PAY" to be a member of the "PTWCC CLUB", i know that sub section 4.5 million of the mandate xyz, says its an open forum to any man and his aunties dog, but surley we must want attract more members who are willing to pay for a membership so the club can grow and grow to bigger and better things !!!!

As we all get caught up in the discussion, let's remind ourselves of the issue , I think this quote is one that should be posted on every thread through out the whole website and club board too !!!!!

charliefummi wrote

The way i look at it is buy paying a 12months membership you are

"SUPPORTING THE CLUB THAT SUPPORTS YOU"

hear hear Charles !!!!!

We've gotten away from the point slightly here, I believe titus, rather cleverly, has spotted a new 'loophole' in PTWCC's constitution, namely that membership in order to ride with the club has now become voluntary rather than compulsory. I don't think he would actually begrudge the club £20, nor would any decent person who enjoys club activities and rides. However, we have found ourselves in this rather farcical situation (admittedly through a democratic process voted for by the members) and perhaps it is something we can redress at the next AGM, now that people can see what problems it has created?
For what it's worth, this discussion wouldn't have occurred last year when the 'unwritten rule' was that non PTWCC members couldn't ride with us more than a few rides. Put up or shut up policy!!
As for buying new kit, I don't think you would be entitled to any discount as a non member and subject to who owns the copyright the manufacturer/importer would probably sell it to you direct. I don't think the club have any rights over the design or distribution? I stand to be corrected there.

As a final point, I'm in complete agreement with Charles in supporting the club, loophole or no. I will be paying my membership and buying the new kit.

After having a good chat with my cousin the very polictaly correct pretty boy "aka the disco ball" crowley, hearing a side to this "dilema" i didnt realy know about i have to come to a conclusion, i dont just want to be a CYCLIST and ride my bike i want to be a PORT TALBOT WHEELER !!!, and by paying my £20 that officialy makes me a PORT TALBOT WHEELER, which i am glad to say makes me very,VERY, PROUD !!!

Not to sound to patronising,but well done Charles!. Spotted was the problem with the rule that could seriously affect the membership numbers and financial position of PTWCC. O.K, I threw myself to the lions on this one and taken a bit of flack for the pleasure, but in no way have any of my postings on this thread been damaging to the club,I never once mentioned the word shouldn't, the question I asked was "do I need to", a question that was put to me last Sunday and a question to which I coudn't rightly answer. I must admit it's a pleasure to see the pride welling up in the membership and people defending the club to the hilt, one or two of which actually voted this rule in! Anyway, as Davey said, maybe we could re-introduce the"3 rides and join rule", I mean what else could I spend £20 on Oh yeh!14 +3/4 of Mrs Miggins' steak and ale pies,I know what you're thinking,"that's the last thing he needs". 284 views in 2 days, can't be bad!

Like wise Kevin, this thread shows not a negative but a very much positive support of the club.

Happy new year everyone ... you non posting lurkers too

Chips, we need to see more of this "ALPHA MALE" contribution, in all areas of PTWCC !!! BTW, im glad u have taken some my enthusiastic comments and put them to use in ur signature, but i think every paying PTWCC member by order of the committee should have to change there signature to the same as mine !!!!. Next agm i think i may put this forward to the club and hope u will second me and support my campaign !!

"I DONT JUST WANT TO BE CYCLIST, I WANT TO BE A PORT TALBOT WHEELER"

Amen to that brother...