PTW

Good training session last night, Phew!
I am concerned however about the speed that we travel going along the sea front at Porthcawl. I don't think I'm alone here and would appreciate a concensus that we treat it as a neutral zone before the speed picks up again.
It will also give us a chance to re-group and get everyone invloved in the ride.

Martin that's a problem I would love to have. No, seriously it's a valid point.

I think you are concerd about the traffic on the seafront. Belive me its only like that when the sun is shining.
However the sun does shine quite alot on the welsh riveara. Valid point though.
But what concerns me more is the number of riders who do not know how to ride a chain gang and how doing this in the correct way will benefit all riders. And make it more enjoyable for all.

Perhaps a discussion before we leave the plaza might help.
I do feel that we need to include everyone that rides on a Tuesday, providing they understand that they do require a base level of fitness to enjoy the ride.
There is little point in starting as a group of 10 and finishing as a group of 5.
Riders will get disillusioned and not bother turning up.

I wouldn't have said this if this thread hadn't already been started but as a training ride it needs serious review. One or two riders were trying to make a selection far too early on and if their ego's are sufficiently boosted by dropping the likes of Striker and myself before the halfway point then fair enough. When Dai Lloyd, quite correctly, encouraged other 'lesser' riders to come through I was too out of breath to say that how on earth could they even get to the front, and hitting the front when you've been chasing and not get a chance to recover is just a certain exit out of the back.

However, despite what I've said above, I did enjoy it and it was the first time I've really gone into the red for quite some time. Another 560km and I'd have wiped the floor with the lot of you!

I agree completely, any training ride must have a policy of inclusion and not exclusion due to the ride not being mananged properly.
Again a chat before setting out on a Tuesday might help.

I agrre a chat would help. But we must careful not to kill the Tuesday Bash.
Last night was quick in place but I have been on this ride this year with the likes of Spot, Rhodri, Jonathon and Rhys and taken many a kicking. When you turn up for this ride you generally Know what to expect.
But a simple chat to deignate where we go through and off and where we ease up would help. There are also a number of shortcuts to take on this route.

I do think we have a duty of care to all riders of all abilities and the training should be geared to suit all.

A chain tatoo is a must for this ride!!

I think that the only reason people where blown out yersterday is down to indivduals fitness and stamina,we all had a hard time of it last night, but you only get out what you put in. Riding home on my own on a tuesday evening was a common occurance, but you stick at it and you improve, but unfortunately tiredness, breathlessness and pain are all part of training.Ego's are nothing to do with people wanting to train hard and fast and if you only need to ride at 11 mph, then you only need to train at 11mph. I also think that the stronger riders should not be expected to come back down to the weaker riders level and to try and organise a chain gang at the plaza is a bit awkward as again I think the ride is determined by each riders levels on the night. Don't forget there's no shame in being shot out the back just as long as you come back next time and the time after 'till you don't get shot out. Oh yeh!that stretch through porthcawl could be neutralised for safety reasons after all we have got 30 odd other miles to play on.

I'll accept most of what you say there Issac but what I witnessed was 'going through' (sic) in a stupid stomping fashion way too early and destroying what is still essentially a group training ride. I'd question the training benefit for the riders doing the stomping as well but perhaps their racing results will prove me wrong.

We all have our differing styles Mr AUk and if stomping does it for you stomp on says I. I'll have to have a word with those bar - stewards who ripped my legs off in the presidents a week last Thursday, "Don't stomp! it'll do you no good what so ever" I'll say. As you say it is a group training ride and as you've probably noticed groups of riders with similar fitness and abilities will form of their own accord.

Er no. Not of their own accord!

And I wouldn't call having riders spat out in one's and two's 'groups' either.

Let's get this out in the open. Do we want the Tuesday night bash to be a fast paced training ride with a progressive winding up and a competive finish or what we had last night where the object seemed to be to mindlessly attack each other in a gladitorial battle and thus smash/demoralise the weaker riders with the ride still in it's first quarter?

Back in 1995 the club membership was half of what it was now but the Tuesday night bash was two or three times the size back then and I think we were a better road-racing club back then to boot. Go figure!

Don't quite see it as a" mindless gladitorial battle" those who were able to ride hard, rode hard , those who could sit on , sat on, those who coudn't went out the back and as for the club membership doubling, I and many others can only name the same old 15 - 20 doers i.e marshaling, timing, organising and racing etc.You also seem to have a short memory of tuesday night bashes, I seem to recall riding from Merthyr Mawr to Port talbot on sveral occassions with the likes of your good self and Mr Bruce( not a lot of change there then). As I said earlier "you only get out what you put in". Enter the next presidents and see if they'll wait for you, coz you don' like their pedalling style.

I'm going to make this my last post on this as it's getting a bit like a tennis rally so I only want to focus on the core issue here.

In a road race then anything goes but on a group training ride I'd suggest that some structure or purpose is required other than 'eliminition'.

When Dai Lloyd was, quite correctly, encouraging people to go through (my interpretation of a chaing-gang and how things used to be) I couldn't help but think that if the rotation that he was suggesting had started earlier it would have meant that the likes of you, Dai Smith, Martin, Jugs and George (for example) being on the front would have just taken the edge of the pace, controlled things and allowed the likes of me and Striker to have enjoyed the ride for longer, not that I didn't enjoy what I did whilst I was there and on the ride home on a lovely Summer's evening.

To summarise, a slightly more controlled ride would bring on a whole group of riders and not just the big-hitters and I really can't accept that it will drag anybody down.

On a personal note... Isaac - I fully agree with you about getting out what you put in and improving by participation and persperation! You're living proof! Chapeau!

A chain gang at what pace? . The chain gang actually started at the golf links and as you know if you let a gap open, it's the begining of the end! Rose tinted spectacles!, a most coveted item.

It will always be an arguemnet between those who can keep up and those who can't. I am all for proper chain gnags, but unfortunatley we have neither the discipline or expertise. It still creates the problem as there are those who can keep the chain gang at a higher pace, the slower ones don't come through, gaps go, it falls apart. Any slower however, and the faster riders get frustrated and attack on climbs, and it falls apart.
I agree with Martin that Porthcawl seafront should be neutralised, and efforts should be made after climbs to allow the others to regroup. Apart from that, I think the ride should evolve on the night.

Good feedback here.
See you all there Tuesday.

Meet at 18.20 to sort out rider requirments?

This is a cracking thread.

Hoping this isn't going to get censored due to the sensitive content of it, but it seems to me that the only people who are whinging are the riders that found Tuesday night's training ride hard and as i was one of the riders out but there has been no mention of me in any previous comments i would just like to point out that we used to have a training ride that left the Plaza at 10.30 am on Saturday morning and Tuesday night has always been a training night the only other weekly event during the season is on a Thursday and they are TT so how can any riders within the club ever hope to do well in any sort of road race irrespective of category ie handicap or otherwise if you never do any interval training or simulate what a real race is going to be like and that is the fact of the matter. So, cut to the chase if you want to race hard you have to train hard.

Dai I'm afraid I agree with you, (in my earlier post I basically said what you are saying). Even in a drilled chain gang situation if you are not quite fit enough, it will alwyas be a struggle.

No Dai, your comment won't be censored and thanks for your input.

I don't know if it is "good" training ( maybe the star racers could answer this ), but I have been aware for several years that the Tuesday evening and 10.30 Saturday rides were always considered to be a "bash". And as such when I would foolishly venture out particularly on a Tuesday I felt that the faster riders would be compromiising their own rides in waiting for the rest of us and therefore should have ridden on - with the rest of us taking the appropriate short cuts to try to stay close to the fastest riders .
Also this always gave consideration to the Sunday club run to be a sensible slowest rider group pace .

The last 10.30 saturday ride I was on I should have taken my pipe and slippers!!

I think you mean 09.30 is a bash